55: Earlonne Woods
Source: San Mateo County Libraries
“When he goes up to shoot into the car, and the gun doesn’t work, so he ends up breaking the window of the car, and the car just takes off! So, the next day, he called me, and he’s like, ‘Yeah, man someone tried to follow me home last night…’”
About Earlonne
Earlonne Woods has led an improbable path through life. He was raised in South Central LA, the same hood, or group of hoods, that Dr Dre and Snoop brought to the mainstream in the early 90s. Like Dre, he was from a broken home. His father was a violent alcoholic who wasn't around much, and his mother was a postal worker who struggled to make ends meet. So Earlonne and his older brother spent time on the streets. When he was just nine years old, Earlonne lifted up a faulty railroad crossing gate to allow cars to pass. Unfortunately for him, that was a federal crime. Adding insult to injury, the arresting officers claimed he was charging each car a dollar to go by, despite the fact that he didn't have a penny on him when he was arrested.
And like Snoop, Earlonne was attracted to the gang life. When he was just a kid, E and his friends Julian and Juan created their own gang, the Crip Boys, taking the name from the local gang Shackboy Crip. It was mostly harmless, but the older kids eventually noticed E and he joined their gang, which by that time was the 76 East Coast Crips operating on the east side of LA. At 14, he started selling weed and then cocaine. It was 1985 and Earlonne was experiencing the crack epidemic in real time. He didn't just have a front row seat, he was on the stage. When he was 15, Earlonne committed his first robbery with his brother, who had gone from selling drugs to robbing drug dealers, and at 17, he was convicted as an adult for the kidnapping and robbery of a drug dealer and sentenced to 10 years. After serving six, he was released in 1995.
On December 28, 1997, after a botched robbery attempt, Earlonne and his best friend Furman “F-Dog” Little found themselves in a police chase and, after losing control of the car, they jumped out to run. The police opened fire. 41 shots later E and F-Dog were hit. E was lucky. The bullet just missed his heart. F-dog was not so lucky. Hit in the back five times, he died at the scene. At the hospital, Earlonne had to call Furman's wife, the mother of a one-year-old and pregnant with their child, and tell her that her husband was gone.
But it got even worse. Unbeknownst to E, his juvenile convictions counted as his first two strikes under California's infamous three strikes law. This conviction for attempted second-degree robbery would be his third. He was sentenced to 31 years to life and another 26 to life for assault with a deadly weapon.
Dealing with his friend's death, Earlonne experienced unfamiliar emotions—loneliness, abandonment, bitterness, disappointment, shame, regret, fear, anxiety, anger. This would be his inflection point. He decided that he was done destroying whatever remained of his life. After over a dozen years and multiple attempts, E was finally transferred to San Quentin, a low-custody level two prison with a media lab. It was still prison, but for E it was practically Disneyland.
The prison's media lab was where he created the Ear Hustle podcast with prison volunteer Nigel Poor, a visual artist and photography professor at California State University. The two met when Nigel came to the prison to talk about photography and they immediately hit it off. They would record the show in San Quentin's media lab and use it to share the daily realities of life inside prison by those living it. On Nigel's suggestion, they entered the podcast into the Radiotopia podcast competition and, of the 1,536 contestants from 53 countries, they won. This meant the show would get picked up by Radiotopia and PRX, effectively giving them national distribution and access to more creative talent. The rest is history.
Within months, Ear Hustle, which is prison slang for eavesdropping, was at the top of the iTunes podcast charts and millions of people, yours truly included, devoured each new episode, ready to be taken inside, as the tagline went. It was an incredibly honest and completely unprecedented perspective.
The podcast set Earlonne free creatively. What he didn't see coming is that it would also help set him free physically. In 2018, California Governor Jerry Brown commuted Earlonne’s sentence, citing his leadership and his work on the podcast.
He left San Quentin at 10 am on November 30, 2018, having served a total of 27 years in prison. He's been a free man for five years now and he's been busy. He still co-hosts Ear Hustle, which is celebrating its 100th episode with a sold-out tour. He and Nigel co-wrote a book called This Is Ear Hustle, which chronicles their journeys, and he advocates on behalf of those who have had their lives unfairly shattered by the Three Strikes Law.
He was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Audio Reporting and has won multiple awards, including Apple Podcasts Creators we Love and the Authors Inside Hope Award, which he says is “the best award ever from my community.”
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Max Chopovsky: 0:02
This is Moral of the Story interesting people telling their favorite short stories and then breaking them down to understand what makes them so good. I'm your host, max Tropowski. Today's guest is Erlon Woods, whose path has been, shall we say, improbable. He was raised in South Central LA, the same hood, or group of hoods, that Dr Dre and Snoop brought to the mainstream in the early 90s. Like Dre, he was from a broken home. His father was a violent alcoholic who wasn't around much, and his mother was a postal worker who struggled to make ends meet. So Erlon and his older brother spent time on the streets. When he was just nine years old, erlon lifted up a faulty railroad crossing gate to allow cars to pass. Unfortunately for him, that was a federal crime. Adding insult to injury, the arresting officers claimed he was charging each car a dollar to go by, despite the fact that he didn't have a penny on him when he was arrested.
Max Chopovsky: 0:57
And like Snoop, erlon was attracted to the gang life. When he was just a kid, e and his friends Julian and Juan created their own gang, the Crip Boys, taking the name from the local gang Shackboy Crip. It was mostly harmless, but the older kids eventually noticed E and he joined their gang, which by that time was the 76 East Coast Crips operating on the east side of LA. At 14, he started selling weed and then cocaine. He was 1985 and Erlon was experiencing the crack epidemic in real time. He didn't just have a front row seat, he was on the stage. When he was 15, erlon committed his first robbery with his brother, who had gone from selling drugs to robbing drug dealers, and at 17, he was convicted as an adult for the kidnapping and robbery of a drug dealer and sentenced to 10 years. After serving six, he was released in 1995.
Max Chopovsky: 1:50
On December 28, 1997, after a botched robbery attempt, erlon and his best friend Furman F-Dog Little found themselves in a police chase and, after losing control of the car, they jumped out to run. The police opened fire. 41 shots later E and F-Dog were hit. E was lucky. The bullet just missed his heart. F-dog was not so lucky. Hidden in the back five times, he died at the scene. At the hospital Erlon had to call Furman's wife, the mother of a one-year-old and pregnant with their child, and tell her that her husband was gone. But it got even worse. Unbeknownst to E, his juvenile convictions counted as his first two strikes under California's infamous three strikes law. This conviction for attempted second-degree robbery would be his third. He was sentenced to 31 years to life and another 26 to life for assault with a deadly weapon.
Max Chopovsky: 2:42
Dealing with his friend's death, erlon experienced unfamiliar emotions—loneliness, abandonment, bitterness, disappointment, shame, regret, fear, anxiety, anger. This would be his inflection point. He decided that he was done, destroying whatever remained of his life. After over a dozen years and multiple attempts, e was finally transferred to San Quentin, a low-custody level two prison with a media lab. It was still prison, but for E it was practically Disneyland.
Max Chopovsky: 3:14
The prison's media lab was where he created the Ear Hustle podcast with prison volunteer Nigel Poor, a visual artist and photography professor at California State University. The two met when Nigel came to the prison to talk about photography and they immediately hit it off. They would record the show in San Quentin's media lab and use it to share the daily realities of life inside prison by those living it. On Nigel's suggestion, they entered the podcast into the Radio Topia podcast competition and, of the 1,536 contestants from 53 countries, they won. This meant the show would get picked up by Radio Topia and PRX, effectively giving them national distribution and access to more creative talent. The rest is history.
Max Chopovsky: 3:59
Within months, ear Hustle, which is prison gang for eavesdropping, was at the top of the iTunes podcast charts and millions of people, yours truly included, devoured each new episode ready to be taken inside, as the tagline went. It was an incredibly honest and completely unprecedented perspective. The podcast set Earlan free creatively. What he didn't see coming is that it would also help set him free physically. In 2018, california Governor Jerry Brown commuted Earlan's sentence, citing his leadership and his work on the podcast.
Max Chopovsky: 4:31
He left San Quentin at 10 am on November 30, 2018, having served the total of 27 years in prison. He's been a free man for five years now and he's been busy. He still co-hosts Ear Hustle, which is celebrating its 100th episode with a sold-out tour. He and Nigel co-wrote a book called this Is Ear Hustle, which chronicles their journeys, and he advocates on behalf of those who have had their lives unfairly shattered by the Three Strikes Law. He was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Audio Reporting and has won multiple awards, including Apple Podcasts Creators we Love and the Authors Inside Hope Award, which he says is quote the best award ever from my community, and so, from gang member to convicted felon, to inmate, to the creator and host of an award-winning podcast to fierce advocate for the oppressed and underrepresented Earlan Woods. Welcome to the show, brother.
Earlonne Woods: 5:27
Say man, I need to hire you, man, take you on the road with me now. That was an opening. I think that was an opening. So how you doing, man? I appreciate your words. Man, it was a lot. I forgot about a lot of that stuff up in there.
Max Chopovsky: 5:42
Well, I'm glad to remind you, man, it was quite hard to tear myself away from reading about you as I was doing the research for this episode, because, man, what a journey.
Earlonne Woods: 5:56
It's been a long journey, man, and the good part is coming. On the other side of a lot of oppression and crazy stuff inside prison, I'm just trying to be out here for five years enjoying family, enjoying friends and continuing to do the work with a whole new career for us podcast and other stuff. So it's been fun, man. I can say that it's been fun. I haven't taken myself too serious. I've just been every day, just wake up, continue to do, continue to go, continue to smile.
Max Chopovsky: 6:27
Just keep moving forward.
Earlonne Woods: 6:28
Yes, yes.
Max Chopovsky: 6:30
And you got a big milestone coming up. In a couple of years you will have spent more time free than imprisoned. I think it's coming up in two years, right.
Earlonne Woods: 6:39
You might be right. I spent a total of 27 years in prison.
Max Chopovsky: 6:44
And that will put you at 54, when you've spent more time out of prison.
Earlonne Woods: 6:48
Okay, okay, you might be right there. You might be right there. I was thinking as an adult, because I always tell people like my adult years in society currently is only seven years, 10 months as an adult in society, because the first time when I got out I stayed out two years 10 months and now it's been five years. So as an adult, I've been free for seven, eight years almost.
Max Chopovsky: 7:16
Well, whether you're in prison or juvie every hour inside that place should count towards the total.
Earlonne Woods: 7:20
I don't know, definitely no. Real talk, real talk.
Max Chopovsky: 7:24
So you are here to tell us a story? Before you tell the story, is there anything the audience should know? You want to set the stage for the story in any way?
Earlonne Woods: 7:35
So when you first started out and you was talking about, like me going like, say, on the first robbery with my brother at 15, this is back in that era, because this is when everybody is, of course, paranoid, everybody is living a certain life where you have people that are drug dealers, you have people that are jackers, you have this atmosphere of always needing a gun, always feeling you need a gun, so you're pretending to be these roles. So it goes back to that era. All right, man, it goes back to that era and I hope I get it right.
Max Chopovsky: 8:10
All right, well, let's go Tell me a story.
Earlonne Woods: 8:13
All right, here we go, max. When I was like 15, of course, one involved in gangs, which was just more of a camaraderie with all your friends growing up. It just turned into something else as you grow which becomes a gang. We also I was dealing with my brother who was in the drug game at the time, and he went from like, say, for instance, selling drugs to robbing drug dealers. So it became like real intense. So it was more of having guns just to have them. So this story come out at one time he had just got two new guns, I think they were like nine millimeters or something, and we were playing around with him, shooting him. So I take one in the house and I put my little thing of cleaning it All right. So I cleaned this gun and when I was cleaning it, the hammer I guess it's called, or the top part of it came off. It slid off. So when it slid off, the springs and the barrel and stuff was like it was some stuff that came to, some stuff relocated itself. So as like a 15 year old, I'm like, oh, and it's brand new. You know what I'm saying. We know it worked. We just shot the thing just playing around. You know what I'm saying. So I was in there putting this thing back together before my brother realized that I didn't take the thing apart. You know what I'm saying. He just spent some money on this thing. So I'm in there putting it back together, quietly, putting all the springs, this, that and there, and I get it to where it's like. When I finally get it, it's cool, it's operational. So I'm like all right, cool, this is cool. So I don't ever say nothing, I don't even pay attention to it, I just let it be.
Earlonne Woods: 9:55
And later that day he had took that particular gun with him when he was going, because he's knew everywhere he went he had guns on him. So you know, we've got aCO Iso. Right the next day he called me and he's like yeah, man, you know, man, somebody tried to follow me home last night, man. And when I had an opportunity, man, the thing was tripping. You know something like what's that, what you mean? He said, man, I was leaving mom's house. Man, he say, and it was me and one of his girlfriends, lady friends, he'd say we was leaving and he noticed that a car was following them. And in this game of somebody's following you, they don't mean nothing good. They're not following you to catch you, to give you some money or to give you some flowers or some chocolate. You know they're following you for a reason, especially at that time. So he said he hit a few conas they were still back there, you know and he noticed them.
Earlonne Woods: 10:47
So he went down this one street and he had the lady that was in the car with him just sit there and then, when the car hit the corner, turn into the driveway. So the car had hit the corner, he's out the car at this moment time and he's behind a tree and he's waiting for the car to come up. And when the car Come up, the car is definitely looking To where the car that he was in just turned in. So when he run up on the car from their blindside he, I guess, go to like to shoot into the car and the gun don't work. So he ended up breaking the window of the car and the car just take off because it's nighttime. He couldn't see what was up and he just was tripping and he jumped in the car. They went on about their business.
Earlonne Woods: 11:30
So the next day he had called me, was like man, told me what happened, told me that you know, something was wrong with the gun. He could have called me that night and told me. So I still don't say nothing, you know, and it because it don't down on me. It didn't down on me that you know. I messed up His gun. You know what I'm saying.
Earlonne Woods: 11:47
So we talked about it and then he ended up going over to one of his other lady friends house and he saw a car in the backyard that had a car cover over it and he was just trying to figure out like what car was it that had a car cover over it? And when he lifted it up it was the car with the broken window. You know what I'm saying. So one lady was just trying to see where he was going with the other lady and his perception of it was you're trying to follow me, to ride me, to kidnap me, to Take revenge out on me for something I may have done. And you almost got it. You know them saying you almost got it.
Earlonne Woods: 12:25
But had it not been For my little brother basically tinkering with that gun, so I don't know when that? When he finally had told me that it was the other lady and I told him, I said you know what, bruh, what I didn't tell you was I was cleaning that gun and I took it apart and I tried to put it back together, bruh, and I thought I put it back together, but I guess something didn't act right, you know, because again, I don't even say I, the world around her Made that gun inoperable at that moment. I'm just say to give her life because people weren't playing in those days, people were on some other stuff. This is when they had just dropped all little things. They just they had dropped all those tons of drugs into the community. So it was a lot of money out there and people were playing those games at the time. So I always think about that story to where, had it not been for that story could have ended totally differently.
Max Chopovsky: 13:27
I mean it's crazy how different things were back then and how close people came to losing their lives and how needlessly a lot of people lost their lives because it could have been hearsay about Somebody killed this guy and that guy came back to get him and in this case it wasn't even gang related, it was just jealousy. This girl is just jealous.
Earlonne Woods: 13:52
She was suspicious, she was getting her evidence up. That's what she was doing. I Seen you. I seen you over. You was with her. Yeah, and that was crazy.
Max Chopovsky: 14:01
So you saved her life.
Earlonne Woods: 14:03
So when you look at it, that's instead of yes, because I don't know if he would have shot, I'm sure he would have. I don't know if she would have been hit, I'm sure she would have that close. So I can't say what happened. I think what happened happened and it didn't happen, which was by the grace of God. So that story always tripped me out, is to where lives were saved in that moment of Messing up the mechanics of a gun.
Max Chopovsky: 14:31
God works in mysterious ways. Right.
Earlonne Woods: 14:33
God works in mysterious ways, you know, sometimes I always feel I'm anointed, some I'm always feel like I'm just touched and you know, I know my mother pray a lot for the kid, you know, and sometimes it's just like even in in my life today, you know, affecting people from far away. It's just I'm a vessel. Things that have happened Leads me in the direction that we're. Hey, you just a vessel, just hold on, keep it moving, do you I?
Max Chopovsky: 14:58
Think you could make the case for that, because your path is, as I said, improbable. So when you took apart the weapon, what you did was known as field stripping it, and there's three components that you end up with if you exclude the magazine to the weapon. You get the lower part of the weapon where the trigger mechanism is the handle. You get the slide, which is the top metal part that goes back, which I slid off, which came off, and then you get so there's four Total, there's three at the top there's a slide, there's the recoil spring and there's the barrel. This is and I'm talking about non Hammer fired semi-automatic nine millimeter pistols. There is the slide, the recoil spring and the barrel.
Max Chopovsky: 15:39
And If you don't know what you're doing and you remove the Slide, the recoil spring and the barrel fall out and you can't catch with your eyes how they were supposed to be before, as they are falling out and you're like, oh shit. And so I can imagine what you were going through as this happened, because Trevor was Trevor's older than you. You didn't want to get on his bad side and be like Dude, I'm I'm so sorry, but I'm curious. Why didn't you just come clean and tell him hey man, I fucked it up, I'm sorry.
Earlonne Woods: 16:10
I guess it's more of okay, I can fix anything. It was just like oh, it's back together, it's good. I didn't in my mind, I didn't come to the thing that, oh, this is inoperable now because I may have not done something, something I didn't do or something I put in backwards or something I do. You know what I'm saying. Something may have popped out, I didn't see, but I think once I put some of those things in, that that slide went back on. It was fixed for me.
Max Chopovsky: 16:41
So let me ask you this you said they were brand new. Was it that easy to get guns in LA at that time, brand new weapons that you could just go to somebody and get?
Earlonne Woods: 16:52
No, I think there was a market for a lot of that stuff. I don't know, man, I would like to say they just pulled up and opened up U-Hauls. In the back of it was full of that stuff. I mean, only thing I probably didn't see people with when I was growing up was bazookas. Yeah, like real talk, like everything else but a bazooka, you know fully automatic machines guns, oozeies, hand, countless.
Earlonne Woods: 17:16
I mean, it was a drug culture back then and what came with those ship tons of drugs, was probably tons of weapons, because I think that was the era where a lot of individuals, especially African-Americans that was growing up in the South Central and hoods or ghettos, was seeing a lot of money, and it was through the cocaine trade. It was through all that. That's where a lot of things changed. That's where, I think, of course, over our history, that's where drugs are involved, a lot of things changed. Jealousy comes about, individuals don't care, so they stay feeding this poison to everybody. They just everybody for their own riches.
Max Chopovsky: 17:52
Of course, and there's real money at stake, because when you went from selling weed to selling coke, it was a 50X increase in what you could take home a day.
Earlonne Woods: 18:03
Yeah, especially when you're young and you see that like that you'd have to be somebody that's not affected by anything not to get involved in that when you're seeing it come in and then it might just be your friend who has the connection or the hookup that make all y'all rich. And I think a lot of individuals fail for that. Because we was living how we was living and it's a trip too. And even on this subject, a lot of these dudes were older than me. A lot of these king paying drug dealers they was older than me. But one thing they were to even do those operations where they were savvy businessmen. You know what I'm saying.
Earlonne Woods: 18:39
Savvy businessmen To run an organization like that and to get stuff where you need it, and it has to be a lot of. It's a major skill set and I see a lot of those individuals are out now and they're doing great in the world because of their savviness. You know what I'm saying. I'm talking about not in the world they came from, because when you know better, you do better. You know what I'm saying. And sometimes it's only presented to you in a way where you think that's the way it has to be. Like, say, for instance, some people it's jobs presented to them, some people it's the drug game presented to them and that's what they go after, that way of money. So people get hooked on that. You get hooked on making that type of money. But again, I see a lot of those guys. They're out now and they're doing great. They're being very successful there, involved in whether it's hip hop, industry, real estate. I mean they're doing great.
Max Chopovsky: 19:36
I mean, hustle is hustle right, Hustle is hustle.
Earlonne Woods: 19:38
I mean again, when you know better, you do better. And I think with the hustling game you just take one product and replace it with something that's not illegal. Correct? You know what I'm saying, Correct?
Max Chopovsky: 19:49
Have you ever heard the podcast Surviving El Chapo about the Flores Twins?
Earlonne Woods: 19:55
No no.
Max Chopovsky: 19:56
So good I got to send it to you. It's basically about how these two twins, who are from Chicago, ended up rising to the top of his organization and then, once they got in trouble and I think they were indicted, they decided to cooperate. And then they had to go undercover to try to take him down and wear a wire and all of this stuff. What's crazy about it is it made me think of your comment, which is the organization with which the cartel ran. Its operations was similar to what a Fortune 500 company would do, with org charts and financial records and quarterly goals and P&L statements, and just like. This is insane.
Earlonne Woods: 20:46
And you're under people. You got to make sure everybody's making their shipping and really all that. Everything has to be on point. So, yeah, you are running a Fortune 500 company.
Max Chopovsky: 20:57
And actually it's probably a Fortune 50 company once you consider what kind of revenue it brings in.
Earlonne Woods: 21:03
Yeah, and then that's a whole other thing. Where are you going to put that?
Max Chopovsky: 21:07
Yeah, exactly, it's a whole other problem you got to solve. That's probably why they're successful.
Earlonne Woods: 21:11
Yeah, I think that probably was the best problem ever to have. Where do you put it all? But it's a trip, just living that life. And then you have dues that, like you were saying, in the premise of them, they get caught and they go tell on the people that help them get rich, which is that's a you know. Of course it's a coward's way, you know, to go just, you got caught. If the gig is up, go do your time. Whatever it is, go do it. You know what I'm saying Wash shit on the next person, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 21:38
You know what I'm saying. It's the code. So you mentioned that after you got these guns, you went to go shoot them somewhere, did some practicing with them. Where do you go and do that? Would you actually go to a firing range or no?
Earlonne Woods: 21:52
no, it's a crazy part. Like you can have these little areas we was in LA where you can get off a few even the backyards in your yards be so big and we were so not even tripping that you are over here shooting a gun in your backyard. You know what I'm saying, but you know if the police come they ain't going to see nobody and we didn't pick up the shell cases but backyards used to be big on the east side. You know what I'm saying and you know. The crazy part is I was thinking about this years later, I remember. Sometimes you know you might sit a hubcap on a gate and you might fire into that hubcap. Right, man, where is that bullet going?
Max Chopovsky: 22:28
Pass the hubcap into the house that's across the street.
Earlonne Woods: 22:30
Pass the hubcap into whatever it is the alley, because just your mind ain't there. You know what I'm saying. Your mind isn't fully developed, you know, until years later. You know and it's like wow, this is crazy, the things that you did back in the day and the stuff that could have happened, that didn't.
Max Chopovsky: 22:47
Yeah, it blows my mind how many people almost died, and I mean setting aside for a minute how many people actually died, but how many people almost lost their lives for some meaningless shit. And it's funny you mentioned picking up shell casings. Did anybody? Because I heard I was talking to somebody recently and they were like the best weapon to have is a revolver.
Earlonne Woods: 23:12
Because you don't leave shell cases behind, because we don't leave shell cases behind.
Max Chopovsky: 23:16
Yeah, so like for self-defense, but it's you know, you're limited to six or whatever it ends up being. Do you guys ever look at it that way? I'm curious.
Earlonne Woods: 23:23
I don't know. I think, especially in the community I come from, I think the bigger the clip, the better you feel. I remember growing up. You know we used to be on these little crews and one of my friends had a little 25 or 22. And he used to be like I don't know why y'all laughing at this, this thing right here making you shut up.
Earlonne Woods: 23:39
You know, it was just the conversations back then that just used to be hilarious, you know. But I think, yeah, the bigger the clip probably. I mean, and did you say like, was that stuff ready, easily accessible? I think when I was like 16, I had a tummy Back from like Al Capone days Wow, I had a Thompson, oh my gosh. The only difference was it didn't have the drum clip, it just had the long clip. You know, but yeah, that stuff was like easily accessible and same with the ammo.
Max Chopovsky: 24:11
Same U-Haul truck, same with the ammo.
Earlonne Woods: 24:13
Same with the ammo. Yeah, I think back then you probably could have went to like what was them little spots they had and bought ammo. I don't think ammo was like major. You could, like you had to be an adult to buy ammunition. I don't think, I can't remember, but I think you could just go into they used to call it like track auto or one of them little spots and just going in grab stuff. I think they might have changed it now.
Max Chopovsky: 24:38
Yeah now it's, there are a lot of restrictions and, especially for certain states, they won't even ship to certain states, to certain counties, to certain cities, municipalities, because there are state restrictions. But then there are local restrictions, municipal restrictions, county restrictions, and those can be on the caliber, on the capacity of the magazine, on the weapon itself. I mean, it is, it's restrictive.
Earlonne Woods: 25:07
It's a trip, because I always wondered, like if this I don't want to say like Wild Wild West but if this was a nation that allowed people to be armed, would there be so much shit going on? What do you think? I don't know, because people are hesitant to run up on somebody that has a weapon. Very hesitant, you know what I'm saying. But if a person don't, then at the end of the day, for whatever reason, they just looking at that as a means to an end, whether it's to gain some type of money or something. But I don't know.
Max Chopovsky: 25:36
Well, I think that's the argument that self-defense concealed carry advocates make. And when you talk about, you know the stickers that you see on certain places that say no weapons allowed in here. If you were a criminal, where do you think you would go first? Probably a place that has a sign like that, because it's a fish and a barrel right there's something in there. If you got that sign, well, whether or not there's something in there, there certainly isn't anybody to defend that something, right?
Earlonne Woods: 26:06
True that, true that to defense this.
Max Chopovsky: 26:08
Yeah. So as you think about that story that you told, with these crazy sort of coincidences and the accident of reassembling that pistol, what is the moral of that story to you?
Earlonne Woods: 26:22
I guess, more than that is probably. Sometime, god put you where you need to be. I needed to be in that situation. I needed to be there to or to be with my brother at that particular time to do that particular thing, and even though I wasn't around when anything else transpired, I did change the course of action. So, man, sometime I guess, follow your intuition. Yeah, follow your. More than that, follow your intuitions.
Max Chopovsky: 26:56
Well, it was like the time when you were with your buddies and you guys somebody had an idea to run up on a rival gang, and then you guys got there and you were sort of staked out. And then one of your friends got up and was like I'm not doing this, I'm boy jabbed, yeah, yeah. And then everybody followed him right so you could make the same argument for that.
Earlonne Woods: 27:15
Make the same argument. Yeah, no, definitely. And I think the argument for that was a little different. You know that argument was more of bruh, somebody gonna tell. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, somebody gonna tell. So I guess it was the same because it straight snapped us out of what we was into, what we was trying to do. You know, guidance growing up is everything. You know it's a trip. Now that I look at like you know again, when you know better, you do better.
Earlonne Woods: 27:41
Like one of the things that I don't do and I try not to do it is I try not to go places where people need guns and I don't go to like to clubs. I don't do the after. James Brown said it. I'm a firm believer in what James Brown said. James Brown said I guess they was asking him about like after parties and stuff like that. He say, bruh, I go home and go to sleep, don't know what good happened after 10 o'clock at night, what good happened in the after party areas. People are drinking and they don't have the full conscience of what's going on and shit happened. You just scuffed somebody foot and now they wanna take it to the next level. So I try to stay away from those type of places. Man, I try to just go to sleep at night and wake up in the next morning.
Max Chopovsky: 28:22
And because you stay away from the after parties and the booze that adds a very flammable element to that situation, you can wake up the next morning.
Earlonne Woods: 28:32
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think as you grow older and you understand it's like man, life could be so cool man, if we just mind our own and leave everybody else alone, and so that's the end of the trip. Like I was saying, like that's the thing that a lot of me and my partners that then got out after these life sentences are trying our best to do, which is come back, heal these communities, go into these schools and like the same stuff I was doing when I was young, trying to tap in with those type of individuals. Now, you know what I'm saying. One of the schools that a lot of my partners we go to is Oakland Tech.
Earlonne Woods: 29:09
You know what I'm saying. Tap in with those youngsters. The homegirl just took them on a trip to San Quentin, right, and to give them that, to see that they may hear about it, but to actually go inside and take a tour and just see what it's about and what it's looked like. And you know it could change one person in that thing Like, oh, I ain't going down that street no more, and that's a success.
Earlonne Woods: 29:32
Yeah, definitely so. That's what a lot of cats into nowadays, man, it's the therapy aspect of it, the recovery aspect of it. You know, trying our best to whatever we do is to assist and to help out. You know it takes a lot, man. It takes a lot. We pull it in every different direction, but we definitely out here trying to stay the course. And it's a long, it's a long term game. This shit is a marathon, it's a marathon.
Max Chopovsky: 29:57
And speaking of therapy, you were kind of one of the pioneers of trying to, or at least downplaying some of the stigma around therapy, because for you, when you were in prison, it was, as you call it, the nuclear option to get you out of there. So you could finally try to get to San Quentin instead of getting that CPP.
Earlonne Woods: 30:15
Now, that was the story. That was the story, right there, that was the story. And it's crazy because they tried to kick me out of mental health therapy, right, Because they felt like man, you are right, you OK, but I was like man. It's cool to come in here and chop it up and have a different perspective. You know, on prison or just life period, and you know, and it's not another prisoner, it's not a staff member, you know what I'm saying. So I played my way into that to leave the situation, but it was a door that I needed to open. I needed to go through that door. You know I needed to go through the mental health therapy door. You know it was interesting.
Max Chopovsky: 30:52
You know it's interesting to draw this parallel, despite the fact that it's not an exact parallel. But you know you mentioned in your book that in prison there's a stigma associated with going to therapy, because people are going to think, oh he's crazy, right, he's mentally unstable, right, and that could almost put your life in danger. So I was born in Ukraine and Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union at the time and mental health was not ever looked at as a real issue, because the response to what now would be considered depression would be walk it off right, Like go back to work and stop bitching about shit, Like what is wrong with you, you know? And so it was really similar and now I think, which is really fantastic for so many people out there, there's not as much stigma associated with that. It's like, hey, this is good for you.
Earlonne Woods: 31:51
No, definitely. I advocate that. You know a lot of people, anybody that's in prison, should go through some type of mental health services to understand the cause of the factors of why you do what you do or why you did what you did. We can wake up and look at it as, oh man, I was just, it was a means to an end. You know, I was just trying to make money. But why? What got you on that path? Why the traditional path, didn't you know. But I'm just saying just to have that.
Earlonne Woods: 32:11
You know, that outlet is very helpful because some people go to prison and you can go pretty much through your whole sentence. I don't care if it's 30 years and nobody ever asks you why you did what you did. They just did it to serve out a sentence, that's it. Maybe learn a trade or two, that's offered. But you know, now you're getting into where you know individuals are getting into the essence of it, to the criminogenics, to the understanding that and taking those type of classes, and it's evolving to other prisons. So it's getting to a lot of the prisons but they are now starting to offer those type of services and again, I played my way into it just to lead a situation and it ended up helping and I contribute that too.
Earlonne Woods: 32:51
I told that story not too long ago. I was on the panel and people was asking me, like what was the most creative thing I did, you know, let's say, outside of Earhussel, right, and I was like well shit, I watched the Zoloft commercial about 10 times and I did exactly what the ball. I said exactly what the ball was doing to the psych and I was in you know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky: 33:11
I was depressed, you know what I'm saying, but in reality you were. I mean in reality. When you walked into that prison you said hey, I've been depressed since I came in here with that sentence.
Earlonne Woods: 33:21
Yeah, I was literally depressed and I didn't know it because it was just coming out in different ways, or I might have thought I was having the blues or tripping, but I was going through something. So being able to identify that and, you know, talk it out is definitely helpful.
Max Chopovsky: 33:36
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is for anyone.
Earlonne Woods: 33:39
For anybody.
Max Chopovsky: 33:41
Now you have told countless stories in your day of vastly, vastly different topics your TED talk, the panels, the show. Even when you go to these schools and you serve as the role model for these kids, I bet you start your session with a story to get their attention and to drive the point home. So you've told a lot of these stories, Definitely.
Earlonne Woods: 34:06
Yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 34:07
So, thinking of good stories, what would you say really good stories have in common?
Earlonne Woods: 34:15
Well, I think anytime someone can see themselves in that story or that story itself may not have nothing to do with them, but it resonates with them. I think that's when you get into the art of storytelling, because being involved in it it's a trip. I'm the king of story ideas, but the question is are there stories behind those ideas and how do you flesh it out? You know what I'm saying. How do you find that middle, how do you find that ending that people can't predict or that people are not going to conclude? That's the tricky part of it and for me, I think what they all stories have in it, if you can have it in there is definitely an emotional feeling, humor. An emotional feeling humor.
Earlonne Woods: 35:03
And that's to me, even when I go back to listen to stories and take from them, I'm looking for the emotional aspect of it, what hits me, because if it hits me I know it's going to hit somebody else and everyone is different. Like I probably got files of stories that we haven't completed because it's missing. That you know what I'm saying. That just won't let it turn that corner. But the parallel, I would just say pretty much they definitely got to have those ingredients, man, that surprised that element of somebody did something to get somewhere, but because of they couldn't get there. You know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky: 35:43
Sounds like you're teaching a storytelling workshop.
Earlonne Woods: 35:47
That was it right there, that was it.
Max Chopovsky: 35:49
So that's what makes for a good story, what makes for a good storyteller.
Earlonne Woods: 35:54
Somebody that can talk, somebody that can be articulate. You know how people get on stage and they act it out. But a person you can sit down with a person and they can have a great story, but they can't articulate the story like it needs to be told. So if you're a person that can articulate and you can make people see it and I know a few of them hilarious, that's a great story. If you can articulate what you're trying to say, you can make a face and people just fall down because you're articulated, you're living it out, you're carrying it out. You know what I'm saying? So to me, it starts with a person being able to be articulate, being able to get it out, and then they get their points across.
Max Chopovsky: 36:32
You know I look to some of the great comedians of our time and even prior generations like. Somebody that comes to mind now is Kevin Hart. If you imagine his facial expressions when he's on stage telling the story, you could cut the story in half, because half of it can be told with those facial expressions. He's so animated.
Earlonne Woods: 36:51
Animation, like some people can say it, but if they don't act out what they're saying, you might not get it in the same cheery way. You know, my favorite comedian is now Ali Sadiq, and whatever he's talking about, his facial expressions or his actions hilarious, hilarious. I like Ali Sadiq. He's a conscious person. I like a lot of them. Dave's pilled him up. I like a lot of them. But I was just looking at Richard Pryor, red Fox, eddie Murphy. You know what I'm saying. So on Instagram you'll see a lot of those Red Fox clips. I'll stay sending me and Lieutenant Robinson that's on the ear, hustle Sam. We stay going back and forth with those Red Fox clips we find Hilarious man, richard Pryor, obviously a classic Eddie Murphy.
Max Chopovsky: 37:40
So my wife and I, when we this is before, we were still dating at the time we threw a viewing party for Eddie Murphy Raw and we literally just got like forties and because you had to be on brand and we invited a bunch of our friends over and we literally watched this thing and we were crying, crying because his level of animation is off the charts.
Earlonne Woods: 38:04
Wait a minute, was Raw the red or the purple.
Max Chopovsky: 38:06
I think Raw was the red.
Earlonne Woods: 38:08
Okay, okay.
Max Chopovsky: 38:09
Yeah, yeah.
Earlonne Woods: 38:10
Yeah, Eddie has been a fool forever. That's one thing I can give it to Eddie Murphy. He got timing. Eddie Murphy is like I was just looking at one with him and Richard Pryor as something last night where Richard was like man, this, a cute girl over there. Eddie was like man, that's my fiance man, stop looking at my feet. This man, this is about you. And then he Totally Even that exchange. That exchange, man, it was a trip, them two dudes, I think. I think it's been a lot of comedy with them two so good. But comedy, man, it's just, it's just being able to act it out and you have a lot of cats that can do that.
Max Chopovsky: 38:47
Totally, totally. Now does every story have to have a moral, and if it doesn't, is it still a good story?
Earlonne Woods: 38:55
I would think that you're going to find whatever moral you're going to find out of it. You know what I'm saying. So every story might end up with the moral of that was hey, don't walk across the street, you can get hit by a car. I think you'll be able to do something from them. But I think some stories don't have to be beginning, middle and end. Some stories can just happen, because sometimes we might not have a beginning, middle and end and we just stick a story within us existing story because that's as much as we got of it. You know what I'm saying. We didn't get the end. So, to answer that question, that's a good question? I don't think so. I don't think so, but we will arrive at some deducement.
Max Chopovsky: 39:39
That's what I think. I think there might not be an explicit one, but if it's a good story, there's something there to be learned from it.
Earlonne Woods: 39:48
I was just telling somebody the other day we was talking about a student, a kid, and I said that story can go even without words, the act of whatever was being done, and to the next, to the next, to the next. You don't even need words for it, because people can see it.
Max Chopovsky: 40:09
You know it's really interesting. You say that because one of my kids has a children's book, is like one of those cardboard books for toddlers and there are only words on the first and last, the first two pages and the last two pages of the book and the rest of it. You understand what they're doing because they're just illustrations, because the first two pages set the stage and they kind of explain to you like what's going on. And it's about these three characters and two of them are going over to give this third one I think her name is Bink. The two of these characters, they go to give Bink her birthday present and they bake this cake.
Max Chopovsky: 40:46
Right, one of them bakes the cake and then, as they start to walk over, the other one says, hey, I'm hungry and this is a great cake and I have a slice of it. And then for the next few pages it's illustrated that he keeps asking him for slices of the cake and he keeps giving him the cake and he gets more and more sad because more and more of the cake is gone and by the time they arrive at Bink's house, she lives in a tree. All they have left is the cherry from the top of the cake. And what makes the story so good is they're standing there, they're knocking on the door and they're both just completely dejected. Because one of them is like I baked this cake, the whole thing is gone. I'm so sad. And the other one just feels super guilty about eating this entire cake. And she opens the door and she ends up loving her gift, which she thinks is a cherry.
Earlonne Woods: 41:34
That's it. She don't know nothing about the cake.
Max Chopovsky: 41:36
No, she's like oh, you got me a cherry, that's fantastic.
Earlonne Woods: 41:39
That's what's up. No, definitely, and then I know that type of book when you're talking to a kid, you're basically coming up with your own narrative to this story.
Max Chopovsky: 41:48
Which is exactly what I do.
Earlonne Woods: 41:51
Exactly what I just make shit up and they love it. They shit up.
Max Chopovsky: 41:53
They love it because every time they get something different Same book, different story Exactly exactly so, speaking of books, what is one of your favorite books that you would say just nails the art of storytelling.
Earlonne Woods: 42:08
Well, I think it probably was the last book that I read in prison, which was it should have been like one of the first books I read, but it was the last book, and it was by what's his name, powell, something which was the Alchemist.
Max Chopovsky: 42:21
Oh, what a great book, Paolo Coelho, I think.
Earlonne Woods: 42:23
Yeah, the Alchemist was a good storytelling book. So good Because that book tells a story, a whole circle of stories.
Max Chopovsky: 42:32
All within one structure.
Earlonne Woods: 42:34
Yeah, I was really amazed by that book because it's a trip. One of the cats on deaf road we interviewed, we was talking about books and he kept bringing that book up. I say, man, I've been hearing about this book so long, I gotta read this book. And I ended up reading and that was probably the last book I read in prison. I got this other book right now, this Walter Mosley book that I'm reading currently. My thing is called Unseen. I just started it on the plane and I'm only like 10, 20 pages in. But I gotta finish that book because I'm trying my best to bring books into my life because I haven't dealt with them. Sometimes I just audio book, that shit quick, which is good. Audio book is good, but I just wanted some. I wanted some page turners.
Max Chopovsky: 43:16
You know Well have you read Jay-Z Made in America by Michael Eric Dyson?
Earlonne Woods: 43:24
No, no, no, Ain't that the guy?
Max Chopovsky: 43:28
Michael Eric Dyson, the professor.
Earlonne Woods: 43:30
The professor that talk about astrology and world.
Max Chopovsky: 43:33
Oh no, you thinking of Neil deGrasse Tyson, also an interesting dude.
Earlonne Woods: 43:36
Oh, okay, I was about to say damn, he writing on Jay-Z.
Max Chopovsky: 43:40
I bet you that would be fascinating to get Neil deGrasse Tyson's take on Jay-Z. Can you imagine?
Earlonne Woods: 43:46
That's my home, gerson. They live by him. They don't tell him about it, they live by him.
Max Chopovsky: 43:50
He actually also wrote a book called something like Astrophysics for People in a Hurry and I got it and it's actually pretty entertaining, cause you know he's so irreverent and sort of self-deprecating that it's good. But this one might be a good one to put on your list, cause he breaks down some of Jay-Z's lyrics and he talks about the different parts of his life and how he isn't just an artist but a brilliant artist, but he talks about his place in hip hop culture and American culture and it's a pretty good read. I would definitely and it's not long, but it takes a while to get through it cause it's heavy. It's like dense, you know. Yeah, I got you, so that's something I would check out. So last question for you, e A lot has changed in your life from when you were 20 years old. I'm gonna actually go back to 17 years old, because I normally say 20, but 20 wouldn't apply to you, cause I think you're already in prison at 20.
Earlonne Woods: 44:52
Yeah, I was in. I left at 17, just turned 17, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 44:56
So if you could say one thing to your 17 year old self, what would it be?
Earlonne Woods: 45:04
Don't pretend. Probably don't pretend, because a lot of stuff that we do out here, or what was doing out there, was pretending to be something that we weren't, and just be you. Follow your heart. Don't follow the popular order. You know what's going on. Just step back and do it the right way. It's just pretty much the same thing I tell all the young cats today that's growing up like bro. You know, I know, you see this. I know you want a part of it. You know what I'm saying. But wait your turn, do it the right way. It might take a little longer, but you're gonna be grounded in your own foundation you know what I'm saying and it's gonna be just that much sweeter. So just wait your turn, man, it's gonna happen.
Max Chopovsky: 45:48
Wait your turn. That's good advice. For anyone, man, that's great advice. Well, that does it, brother Erlon Woods, an incredible person with an incredible story, who has turned his life around and is making a real, real difference. Thank you for being on the show, man.
Earlonne Woods: 46:06
Doing my best, man. Thank you for inviting me, max. I appreciate that man. It was. You know, I could say my last few days was crazy, so it was a good damn, you know, just chill kick back.
Max Chopovsky: 46:19
Well, I told you, man, this is one time where you don't have to be a host. You could just relax and be a guest, just be yourself, Just be a guest man.
Earlonne Woods: 46:25
Real tough, Definitely appreciate it.
Max Chopovsky: 46:28
So by the time this episode goes live, you're gonna have a book that is out called Grammar Squad Therapeutics.
Earlonne Woods: 46:36
Yeah, it's just so. This is a book. I got it right here. When I get cats that's in prison and they reach out to me like bro, this is what I'm trying to do, this is the leaf I'm turning and I'll be like well, what else do you need they be like, oh man, well, I'm trying to do this.
Earlonne Woods: 46:48
So the first book I published for some cats in prison was this called. What it means is I once was. Now I am, I own, I am you know what I'm saying. And this is pretty much a self-help book to help cats, you know, get past gang violence. How do they identify certain things, you know? And the cats that actually helped them publish this, they actually now have a publishing company called Arthur's Inside you know what I'm saying that also helps other individuals inside publish it. So when I did that one for them, now that they have a nice organization that help others, I went to them and I say, hey, I want you all to help me publish this one now. So just to make this cycle keep going, you know what I'm saying. So they're doing this one for me. I told, even though I pay for everything, I just wanna be able to utilize y'all services. You know what I'm saying to get it done.
Earlonne Woods: 47:36
But what Grammar Squad Therapeutics does is it takes the individual. Say, for instance, no matter where you at, but I'ma just say, prison those cats. That's too hard for the yard. They're in their 40s, they're in their 30s, they're in their however old you are, they probably didn't go to school or they probably didn't. They forgot everything.
Earlonne Woods: 47:51
What Grammar Squad Therapeutics does is it just helps you basically learn that again you know what I'm saying. It teaches you to eight parts of speech again you know, and how to change your thinking and your behavior. So in the next few months, you know, one of my partners that actually wrote this is getting out and my mission is to help his name is Larry Davis is to help him kinda get into this industry and speak his piece, cause he's a very thoughtful individual and I see what's going on in social media and on the internet today and I think he's gonna be a breath of fresh air because we're gonna really, really figure out how to heal a gang of individuals out there that found change in such an oppressive and crazy place like prison or wherever it is. It could just be in someone's mind, but we definitely on the mission to do some changes. So that's 2024, definitely should. I should be executive producing some cool stuff and it's gonna deal with this Grammar Squad Therapeutics, you know, and how do we get individuals to change their mindsets in these schools?
Max Chopovsky: 48:54
Well, I think it's fantastic because, on one hand, you're going out into schools and helping the younger generation, giving them some of the guidance they maybe don't get at home, but you're doing something really critical which is reaching back into the prison system to help people who are incarcerated still whether or not they're getting out anytime soon and help them up, which is the easy way is not to do that. The easy way is to say, hey, I'm done, I'm out, I don't want to have anything to do with it, but you're doing the harder and, I think, more noble things. So more power to you, man.
Earlonne Woods: 49:25
I appreciate that, man. Thank you very much. It's a mission, but we finna get it done, though Slowly, but we gonna get there Slowly, slowly, but you'll get it done.
Max Chopovsky: 49:33
Samirathan, that's right man. Well, E, thank you, man, for show notes and more. Head over to MossPodorg. Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast on. This was Moral of the Story. I'm Max Dropofsky. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.